Conversation between Ruth Debel and Louise Schatz
Conversation between Ruth Debel and Louise Schats in view of her exhibitionat the Debel Gallery, October 1978
R.D. Of course Lilik will be present in this show. I can’t forget the day he came to talk to us about it.
L.S. Did he come alone or was I with him?
R.D. He came alone and asked what we thought of having a show of your work. Of course we said we would be delighted, it was something we had wanted for a long time.
L.S. Well you proposed when we came back from Paris, and I wasn’t sure if I wanted to show or sell or anything. I wanted to live with these and think what I thought of them. After all Paris is not precisely an easy place to work these days. We were two painters in a very tiny, noisy atmosphere, noisy in the sense ,that when a pianist practices one phrase over and over again it becomes noise not music, you know. Or an organist, or a, flutist, or any instrument you want, making perfect that one phrase, which is very often buried in an orchestra, you know but it has to be perfect. So you find out what goes into it, but you can't exactly paint to it. I looked around for ear-phones, couldn't find any... We both found that I had to get out. Lilik could still sometimes work.
R.D. So you did most of these works in the studio- in Paris, with all that noise?
L.S. When I woke up early enough I could work a couple of hours. But you know what happened? We had this drought. The most horrific heat-wave. It sent all the musicians out. They left Paris...
R.D. So you could work.
L.S. This "Marais” is a huge block of apartments, and the inter-communication through the heating system is very clear, and through the walls. Ardon keeps his apartment, which is the best, except that I don’t think he much stays there. He holds on to it for the future of the apartment and helps people to have it.
R.D. Other than having to fight with the noise, what is Parisian about these works?
L.S. The color, of course, and the fact that it was a drought period and it was so light. We arrived in May 1976 the drought was so intense that the cattle were fed bananas, everywhere you lookded that was supposed to be green it was bleached and yellow. The light we had through the windows - painters' studios after all - was French light, Paris light, and it was like a 'Hamsin' here. This quite accounts for a high-lighted brilliant color with a great deal of white.
R.D. Some people will say this makes it so ”Israeli".
L.S. Yes, I also thought when I first came to the country, wayback, that the impressionists could have been born here as easily as say in Avignon or around Arles. The few strong colors here are a reaction to the lack of color in the .landscape. All we had was the brilliance of the cars that went by
R.D. Here's a work you call "Quatorze de July"
L.S. It reminds me of fire-works myself. I think my news-print is probably the New-York Times. I like very much to use French paper but I donft think I caught it very often. Lilik wasn't reading French that fluently, so
R.D. What is the difference between French paper and other paper?
L.S. The papers are all very different. The Jerusalem Post is marvellous paper to paint on... Ha'aretz may be the same paper but somehow it doesn't go on the same. In Greece I used Greek paper, I mean paper in Greek language, so forms come through to get ghosts. In Italy I used Italian, but in France I used English I'm afraid, like I do in Israel.
R.D. You can't read Hebrew, you don't try?
L.S. No. I did try a little with the French, I certainly did not try in Greece.R.D. The ghosts are more ghostly if you don't understand the language...
L.S. Sure. I would have liked to add to this show some works in other media. Water-color runs ahead of you. Pastel is a wonderful media too, the powdery surface of it. Or oil on special linen paper. I don't like acrylic, you have to push it. But I haven't been working too much lately.
R.D. "Starb'd", what is that
L.S. It's a nautical term. I feel this has the quality of a signal given at night on ships. And this one has a quality of a Paris scene, you see
R.D. Does it make a difference to you if you are in Jerusalem, or in Paris, for your art?
L.S. It's peace of mind. You have to be where your mind is free to. I'm not disciplined to a noisy city, more to suburbs, nature - A quiet area. I've never been able to work with noise. Not even with music. Lilik was working with music.
R.D. ”View from a bateau"
L.S. This is primarily a feeling, just a feeling. The titles come from that to me. It's really for anyone to see.
R.D. But you do give them titles. You could also not give any titles, so you seem to like words.
L.S. I used to. not any more. I don’t know what will happen now. It's like I don’t really feel for signing. I just signed these. We are anonymous I figure.
R.D. "We" artists, or "we” human beings.
L.S. Both. If we are created in any sense I think we are anonymous too much a combination of all our influences, and I find putting a big name in front, up there, is very pretentious. You sometimes can’t miss who did something, and that’s enough
The conversation was originally held in English
(Copyright Debel Giallery, Ein-Kerem Jerusalem)
Originally Published: 01/10/1978
Conversation between Ruth Debel and Louise Schatz
Conversation between Ruth Debel and Louise Schats in view of her exhibitionat the Debel Gallery, October 1978
R.D. Of course Lilik will be present in this show. I can’t forget the day he came to talk to us about it.
L.S. Did he come alone or was I with him?
R.D. He came alone and asked what we thought of having a show of your work. Of course we said we would be delighted, it was something we had wanted for a long time.
L.S. Well you proposed when we came back from Paris, and I wasn’t sure if I wanted to show or sell or anything. I wanted to live with these and think what I thought of them. After all Paris is not precisely an easy place to work these days. We were two painters in a very tiny, noisy atmosphere, noisy in the sense ,that when a pianist practices one phrase over and over again it becomes noise not music, you know. Or an organist, or a, flutist, or any instrument you want, making perfect that one phrase, which is very often buried in an orchestra, you know but it has to be perfect. So you find out what goes into it, but you can't exactly paint to it. I looked around for ear-phones, couldn't find any... We both found that I had to get out. Lilik could still sometimes work.
R.D. So you did most of these works in the studio- in Paris, with all that noise?
L.S. When I woke up early enough I could work a couple of hours. But you know what happened? We had this drought. The most horrific heat-wave. It sent all the musicians out. They left Paris...
R.D. So you could work.
L.S. This "Marais” is a huge block of apartments, and the inter-communication through the heating system is very clear, and through the walls. Ardon keeps his apartment, which is the best, except that I don’t think he much stays there. He holds on to it for the future of the apartment and helps people to have it.
R.D. Other than having to fight with the noise, what is Parisian about these works?
L.S. The color, of course, and the fact that it was a drought period and it was so light. We arrived in May 1976 the drought was so intense that the cattle were fed bananas, everywhere you lookded that was supposed to be green it was bleached and yellow. The light we had through the windows - painters' studios after all - was French light, Paris light, and it was like a 'Hamsin' here. This quite accounts for a high-lighted brilliant color with a great deal of white.
R.D. Some people will say this makes it so ”Israeli".
L.S. Yes, I also thought when I first came to the country, wayback, that the impressionists could have been born here as easily as say in Avignon or around Arles. The few strong colors here are a reaction to the lack of color in the .landscape. All we had was the brilliance of the cars that went by
R.D. Here's a work you call "Quatorze de July"
L.S. It reminds me of fire-works myself. I think my news-print is probably the New-York Times. I like very much to use French paper but I donft think I caught it very often. Lilik wasn't reading French that fluently, so
R.D. What is the difference between French paper and other paper?
L.S. The papers are all very different. The Jerusalem Post is marvellous paper to paint on... Ha'aretz may be the same paper but somehow it doesn't go on the same. In Greece I used Greek paper, I mean paper in Greek language, so forms come through to get ghosts. In Italy I used Italian, but in France I used English I'm afraid, like I do in Israel.
R.D. You can't read Hebrew, you don't try?
L.S. No. I did try a little with the French, I certainly did not try in Greece.R.D. The ghosts are more ghostly if you don't understand the language...
L.S. Sure. I would have liked to add to this show some works in other media. Water-color runs ahead of you. Pastel is a wonderful media too, the powdery surface of it. Or oil on special linen paper. I don't like acrylic, you have to push it. But I haven't been working too much lately.
R.D. "Starb'd", what is that
L.S. It's a nautical term. I feel this has the quality of a signal given at night on ships. And this one has a quality of a Paris scene, you see
R.D. Does it make a difference to you if you are in Jerusalem, or in Paris, for your art?
L.S. It's peace of mind. You have to be where your mind is free to. I'm not disciplined to a noisy city, more to suburbs, nature - A quiet area. I've never been able to work with noise. Not even with music. Lilik was working with music.
R.D. ”View from a bateau"
L.S. This is primarily a feeling, just a feeling. The titles come from that to me. It's really for anyone to see.
R.D. But you do give them titles. You could also not give any titles, so you seem to like words.
L.S. I used to. not any more. I don’t know what will happen now. It's like I don’t really feel for signing. I just signed these. We are anonymous I figure.
R.D. "We" artists, or "we” human beings.
L.S. Both. If we are created in any sense I think we are anonymous too much a combination of all our influences, and I find putting a big name in front, up there, is very pretentious. You sometimes can’t miss who did something, and that’s enough
The conversation was originally held in English
(Copyright Debel Giallery, Ein-Kerem Jerusalem)
Originally Published: 01/10/1978